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Race detective
RE: Kip L 1/27/2011 6:56PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Actually, just one more set of photos is needed to complete the picture(s).

'Shoes too' gave me an idea, and once again a strong suspicion led to yet more evidence.

We've talked about his m.o. about starting in the back and running without a fully visible number much of the way. I had previously shown that the 'long start delay' behavior started in 2006: before that, shorter delays of around 15 sec were observed in large races using chips. (See my 3 posts on p. 54.)

So, if his starting line strategy changed in 2006 (for major races, at least), did not his number displaying strategy change then, too? 'Shoes too' showed that even as far back as a Jan. 2006 race, there's his number in the middle of his shorts with his shirt pulled out over it. In 2005, was he 'hiding' his race number? No, there it is squarely on his t-shirt like most of us, proudly displayed for all to see.

http://www2.brightroom.com/browser.aspx?eid=6186&bib=547

(Naples Half Marathon, 1/23/05, 1:32:23, 90th of 1107 finishers.)

Summarizing:
2005 - bib number on shirt, starting line-up normal
2006+ - bib number on shorts with shirt(s) pulled over; starting in the back
The picture is now more complete.
Reality Bath
RE: Kip L 1/27/2011 11:42PM - in reply to Race detectiveReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Also note that in 2005 he is looking up and smiling without sunglasses, instead of his later "incognito" look.

LRC should sponsor Kip just for the entertainment value he has provided.
Kyp Lyttyn
RE: Kip L 1/28/2011 7:06AM - in reply to Reality BathReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Reality Bath wrote:

Also note that in 2005 he is looking up and smiling without sunglasses, instead of his later "incognito" look.



It almost invokes a feeling of sympathy for the guy. There's a look of satisfaction on his face in these finish photos, and he's obviously happy with his slower but legitimate 1:32. Compared to the tormented expressions on his face during the cheating years, it's almost sad to think he cheated himself out of being able to hold his head high and take pride in his running accomplishments. There's nothing shameful in a 1:32 hm for an aging master with a full-time job, but it looks like the fun ran out when the cheating ran in.
Race detective
RE: Kip L 1/28/2011 7:04PM - in reply toReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Clarkston Kent wrote:

Shoes too wrote:
"What occured in late 2005, early 2006 that changed his behavior?"
....

The only good ? is your 1st one - the rest are filler.



I agree. The rest are also areas we shouldn't be delving into. Leave his work and spouse out of the discussion.

As for what changed, I recall someone wrote that Kip had joined a running club or team they were both on for awhile several years back, but that Kip left at some point. Couldn't find it on a search. Can anyone find that post, or could the author of it review the details again? Wondering if leaving the club happened around this time.
Kevin52
RE: Kip L 1/28/2011 8:58PM - in reply to Race detectiveReply | Return to Index | Report Post
And another one bites the dust...

http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/training/marathon-race-training/doesnt-kip-litton-wear-garmin

Will Letsrun hold out?

Race Detective - maybe that post was on the Runners World Forums? I remember it, but not where it was posted.
Clarkston Kent
RE: Kip L 1/31/2011 7:58PM - in reply to Kevin52Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Test bump.
florida oldtimer
RE: Kip L 2/2/2011 2:03PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Any news Clarkston Kent?
Clarkston Kent
RE: Kip L 2/3/2011 1:03PM - in reply to florida oldtimerReply | Return to Index | Report Post

florida oldtimer wrote:

Any news Clarkston Kent?


He confessed the West WY Marathon was a ruse.

Need to bump the thread again to make it easier to find. I ain't done w/a review. My eyes glazed over the 1st time thru and I pick up good stuff each time I go back thru.

Entirely possible he'll get DQ'd from 2 MI races soon.

Also, there's truth to the rumor he's agreed to be monitored in upcoming races.
good times
RE: Kip L 2/3/2011 1:27PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Interesting that he's admitted to fabricating the West WY Marathon. Maybe, just maybe, this is the first step in acknowledging other races that he imagined in his sleep, or better yet, coming clean about repeatedly cutting courses to better his time.

It's encouraging to know that race directors are willing to take another look at his performances, and if the evidence supports it, remove him from the results. Personally, I'd walk away with a huge sense of satisfaction if his Boston 5K and marathon results were wiped out, and he was barred from any future BAA events. Maybe they need to create the running equivalent of the "No Fly List". If his name is on it, race directors across the country are alerted and his application is refused.

Finally, he may agree to be monitored in an upcoming marathon, but my hunch is that he backs out at the last minute, citing some lame excuse. No way in hell this guy can post the times that are listed in his "results". He'll agree to get you off his ass, but don't hold out for any follow-through on his part.
TxRunnerGirlsAgainstNewYorkers
RE: Kip L 2/3/2011 1:38PM - in reply to Kyp LyttynReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Kyp Lyttyn wrote:

There's nothing shameful in a 1:32 hm for an aging master with a full-time job, but it looks like the fun ran out when the cheating ran in.


Well it does kinda suck even if he is in the 50-54 age group.
fbstalker
RE: Kip L 2/3/2011 1:46PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Clarkston Kent wrote:

[quote]florida oldtimer wrote:

Any news Clarkston Kent?


He confessed the West WY Marathon was a ruse.

Need to bump the thread again to make it easier to find. I ain't done w/a review. My eyes glazed over the 1st time thru and I pick up good stuff each time I go back thru.

Entirely possible he'll get DQ'd from 2 MI races soon.

Also, there's truth to the rumor he's agreed to be monitored in upcoming races.[/quote]

Can you share any other information about his rational/motivation etc. for the confessed "ruse"?
Clarkston Kent
RE: Kip L 2/3/2011 7:39PM - in reply to good timesReply | Return to Index | Report Post

good times wrote:

Interesting that he's admitted to fabricating the West WY Marathon.

Finally, he may agree to be monitored in an upcoming marathon, but my hunch is that he backs out at the last minute, citing some lame excuse. No way in hell this guy can post the times that are listed in his "results". He'll agree to get you off his ass, but don't hold out for any follow-through on his part.


He didn't actually admit to fabricating the WWM but the story he made up to describe what happened is what I would define as a 'ruse'.

Others have also said he might back out of a monitored-race situation. Fine. It all goes on his 'racing' resume. In the end, a story will lay out the evidence and the audience is free to conclude what the want.
Clarkston Kent
RE: Kip L 2/3/2011 7:47PM - in reply to fbstalkerReply | Return to Index | Report Post

fbstalker wrote:

[quote]Clarkston Kent wrote:

He confessed the West WY Marathon was a ruse.




Can you share any other information about his rational/motivation etc. for the confessed "ruse"?[/quote]

See above about the 'ruse'. In answer to your question - he made up a story to support a notion that the WWM did take place. His story is full of, um, holes. We will never learn from The Kip why he's done what he's done. He will claim innocence regardless. He sleeps w/denial.
Letsrunner
RE: Kip L 2/3/2011 8:53PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Clarkson,

Do you have any indication one way or another that he is enjoying the attention on this thread?
Clarkston Kent
RE: Kip L 2/4/2011 6:42AM - in reply to LetsrunnerReply | Return to Index | Report Post
You're not the first to either ask the question or say he must like the attention. To those who ask I say, 'I don't know' and to those who say he likes it, 'I don't care'. I'm focused on what he did - why he cheats and whether he gets off on it are sideline issues.

As I looked over the 'investigation' of his Boston '10 time, I couldn't make out anything concrete about wrongdoing. Can anybody summarize 'findings' from Boston? Thanks.
Race detective
RE: Kip L 2/4/2011 9:34AM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Photographic evidence of running without a visible number, and an outfit change inconsistent with almost any participant, especially someone of sub-3 hr caliber (IMO) are captured nicely at SOKLR's website here:

http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/01/more-photos-discovered-of-kip-boston.html

(SOKLR - are you still reading this thread?)
awesomeness...
RE: Kip L 2/4/2011 9:58AM - in reply to Race detectiveReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Wow. 3:08 at Suntrust richmond marathon would be pretty standout. Its a big marathon but mostly bottom end 4+ hours. Id say at 3:08 he woulda been strung out pretty good and prob top 50 or so....its a rather hilly course with some tough terrain.
Clarkston Kent
RE: Kip L 2/4/2011 10:48AM - in reply to Race detectiveReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Race detective wrote:

Photographic evidence of running without a visible number, and an outfit change inconsistent with almost any participant, especially someone of sub-3 hr caliber (IMO) are captured nicely at SOKLR's website here:

http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/01/more-photos-discovered-of-kip-boston.html




Gracias!
also...
RE: Kip L 2/4/2011 12:18PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Clarkston Kent wrote:

[quote]Race detective wrote:

Photographic evidence of running without a visible number, and an outfit change inconsistent with almost any participant, especially someone of sub-3 hr caliber (IMO) are captured nicely at SOKLR's website here:

http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/01/more-photos-discovered-of-kip-boston.html




Gracias![/quote]

Don't foget the guy wearing the blue raincoat later in the race that bears a striking resemblence to Kip. I don't see the pictures posted in that Boston summary.

Does anybody know where those are posted? I couldn't find them in a quick scan of the S.O.K.L.R. site.

*A thumbnail of one of the pics I'm talking about is in the heading at the top of the page, under the "R" in Running
W
RE: Kip L 2/4/2011 12:35PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Clarkston,

You say he confessed that the WWM was a ruse, then you later say that he made up a story to support the notion that the WWM did take place.

Well, if he said WWM happened, no matter how ridiculous his story, he's not confessing that it was a ruse.

Is there a reason why we can't hear the story? Are you keeping his confidences so that he will act in good faith? If so, I doubt that tactic works too well with compulsive liars (see U.S. dealings with North Korea, Iran).
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