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| cheap american bastard |
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so i still have 8 pages to read- so someone prob already answered this but: sorry guys the noses are diff. kip has a narrow nose, the guy hiding his face has a fat nose. hate to disappoint, i'm loving this thread. |
| Kevin52 |
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Oops.. sorry shorty... I should've caught that, it's late and I should be sleeping. |
| ouch1000 |
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He skipped the Missoula Marathon awards. That was one reason that I began investigating him in July - I wanted to see how his race developed because my friend, Mike Telling (3rd overall) passed him just a yard before the finish but lost the 2nd place award to him because of Kippy's f*!king chip/gun differential. You can see it in the finish photos: http://racephotos.net/PhotoDetails.asp?nPhotoID=918791&sReturnKey=R:731835. If it doesn't come up, click earlier and then next, and the photo will display. None of this adds much except my original justification for being curious about Litton. |
| Race detective |
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I knew somebody would find something interesting in those photos.... As for the guy in the blue jacket, in the photo you found he looks less like Kip than in https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiCujP60rlqR8sh9FMipODsfir1rvKN8pK9h7I_nO24Hk8LRYu6q47DoBXVH6hQcHjYzLQascrzudtluKurK8xYagQgzCz6sHOTDQkJKwLoeQ_8ycPLQtIAQV7_kLbNTNFZmlfpjt55Ggpg/s1600/kip66666.jpg Also, in the later photo, the runner is surrounded by racers with yellow bibs - 2nd wave runners. Not consistent with Kip's 'performance'. So .. just coincidentally someone overdressed with dark sunglasses and a cap, but who looks like he actually ran the whole way. I think we have enough firm evidence from the 2010 Boston Marathon to 'put a cap' on this one. |
| KipInAHaystack |
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And, there it is!!! So, our theory of just hitting the split mats and doing "something" besides running between at least some of them was tough to prove when many of the photos we looked at were taken AT a split mat. (15k, 20k, half, etc...) Thanks to Jim Rhoades, we have the 20 Mile picture to test our theory. Not quite the 30K, not quite the 35K. Will Kip show up at 20 miles? .....Drumroll...... Nope! Under the 20mile link, you can zero in on where Kip "should" be based on searching people's splits at both the 30K and the 35K. (search splits here: http://www.baa.org/races/boston-marathon/results-commentary/results-search.aspx) Kip's splits were: 30K: 2:02:00; 35K: 2:22:14 Page 33 runners: 30K: 2:00:11; 35K: 2:20:03 Page 36 runners: 30K: 2:02:09; 35K: 2:22:16 Page 39 runners: 30K: 2:03:18; 35K: 2:25:25 Page 43 runners: 30K: 2:06:04; 35K: 2:28:01 So, Kip should be around page 35/36, but definitely somewhere between page 33 and 43 to provide several minutes for possible difference in start time. (All these guys have similar bib #s to Kip's, so I don't think there would be a big difference in start times) I think this is the first real concrete evidence for the marathon at Boston. The change of clothes, especially hat being another, and the 20K-25K splits definitely suspicious. At least between the 30K and 35K marks, this shows me he was not running on the course. Any holes you see in this argument? |
| Race detective |
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20 - 21.1K slower pace makes perfect sense. These split points are so close together that he actually RAN between them. Plus, 20K is right in the heart of Wellesley College. (He probably wanted to take his time there.) Lastly, note that 5:17/k is a 3:43 pace for 26.2 mi. Perhaps this is his true marathon pace. |
| Study of K.Litton Running |
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Some have said he collected $300 because he was top master at Rochester Marathon but that has not been verified |
| Study of K.Litton Running |
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sounds good. im hoping with some help from Boston community (Boston is a HUGE marathon) we can get some more pics and try and put together some more pieces of the Litton puzzle. |
| KipInAHaystack |
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I don't see him in the Jim Rhoades pictures at the 1 mile mark either. It's much more crowded though, so he may or may not have been there. Interesting though, the two picture points that were not also at a split mat, and no sign of the Kipper. |
| Study of K.Litton Running |
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damn. alright have a good night everyone. back to detective work tomorrow. :) |
| Race detective |
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I like your research but, yes, there's a hole in the argument. Lack of a photo in this case doesn't necessarily mean lack of a runner. I didn't look at all the image sequences in the pages you considered, but going just one page further, (p. 44), I can show you how this can be. Look at the 7th and 8th images on that page: http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/20m/image523.html http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/20m/image524.html The first photo shows a runner on the far right with a backwards cap, and the runner to his left has a Richmond shirt. Then next photo shows the Richmond guy closer up. Someone who had been tucked right behind backwards cap guy in the first photo wouldn't have gotten photographed. Looks like this thread went viral today. Is there more yet that we haven't uncovered? |
| Race detective |
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I was the one who mentioned that originally. Point was that as first master, that was what he would have earned. Don't know whether he actually received it, but if not DQ'd, can't imagine that the race director wouldn't have made sure he got it. There must be Rochester area runners reading this thread who know the race director who could confirm this and also find out if KL's performance is being reviewed in light of new information. |
| arroyo runner |
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Mr. Litton may not be visible on pages 35/36 of Rhoads' photos, but yours truly sure is. Smoked his cheating ass to the line on Boylston too. Suck on that you chiseling fraud bastard. |
| creepy kip |
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So what's the deal then? In the UK, if this was presented in the right way to the police, a fraud investigation would be initiated. Not least this would be due to the possibility something criminal has taken place with the funds that have gone through his website. What will happen next? |
| off course Oscar |
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A few points after a good night sleep. Cheap American Bastard is right. My wife and I both noticed that 2 days ago, but since no one posted on it, I didn't think it was valid. Totally different noses to us. I don't think there's any holes, not based off his background. He coincidentally doesn't show up but I am fairly confident all of the honest runners can actually find themselves at least once at that point. As I said, he or his partner, know when there's a photo op and the face is angled down. That is not a coincidence. As far as looking good at the Crim that one year, I have the reverese theory. I know many guys who look lean and in shape at certain times but can't run for a lick, seriously. If you haven't trained to run, you aren't going to be in running shape, especially for 10 miles. I know some very good swimmers who looked amazingly fit but could barely run a 5k. They aren't 49 either, but instead in their younger 20's. I did a biathlon one year at Stoney Creek and they kicked my butt in the water. Yet with a mere 5k run, I passed them 1/2 way through the run and they looked as tone and as in shape as anybody I've ever seen. But they couldn't run. Now the guy in the one photo that looks like him with the blue jacket pulled down over the number (see Study of K. Litton on page 30), on the same side of the road, he looks an awful lot like Kip or possibly related. Weren't those red shoes on the Kipster in a photo of another race? Just asking. He's definitely got the same MO as Kip. Let's run Boston and not show our number. The comparison side by side photo of Kip (?) at 30k and then at the finish, in addition to the little 5k inset photo.....I don't know. Maybe the picture of him finishing versus the 30k point has more color in the photo as far as his face and it's tricking my eyes, but between the nose, the mouth, etc.... Well done photo sleuths. Amazing uncovering and he probably didn't expect this in his worst nightmare. |
| GK |
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I'll second that he ducked out of the Missoula awards. I remember quite will hearing his name called. By July Kip and I had ran several of the same races and with similar times... and by "ran" I mean that I ran them and he... well... he was there. But I had never met or seen him. To think I was excited to meet that guy then is sickening now. I like how they just flat out deleted him from the results. Goes from 5th place to 7th. I set a friggin' PR that day! Finished 9th and got 10th place. I don't get a single digit finishing place because some bozo cheated. Lame. It wasn't enough that he pretended to win a race the weekend before. |
| Gissepe |
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Why bash this gentleman? Stick to the thread content please. |
| Bimmerz |
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No. You don't get a single digit finishing place because you suck.[/quote] Hey. Come on now. Let's channel that hostility and aggression towards Kip, yes? |
| tin arm |
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May I ask how this topic has gone viral? Which mainstream outlets have picked up on it? I can't wait to show this to my non-running friends - the friends that would never follow a link to a running website. However, if/when it gets picked up by mainstream media, it will probably be treated as "news of the weird" and probably not some abhorent fraud scandel story. |
| Lone Gunman |
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Agree. GK is one of the best outlets for first hand info and has been a huge help. He also posts with his real name. I was bashed once also when we were starting to examine the Boston pix even though I was one of the ones who unearthed the fakeness of the WMM and personally contacted marathonguide and got the confirmatory email from them that the race was a hoax. Point is - one of the best parts about this thread is the LACK of the usual garbage of personal anonymous insults and general trolling gibberish seen on these boards on a regular basis. Also it is inspiring to see many people working together in putting together this jigsaw puzzle. |
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