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| SomeActualData |
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 From what I recall of the thread from the other day, the possibility was raised that Litton might have cut the course at the Boston Marathon, or at least the legitimacy of his time there was questioned. To me, that's a big deal, given the stature of the Boston Marathon and its particular history with cheaters (e.g., Rosie Ruiz). It's also an interesting intellectual puzzle - given all the safeguards, could it be done? So did someone "beat Boston"? Could someone?? That would seem to be a legit topic of discussion. Oh, and for the "just keep your mouth shut" crowd, I'd point out that Rosie Ruiz was only caught because various community members stepped up and pooled what they knew ... kind of like what the Let's Run message board does these days. |
| Dirty South |
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By the way, how do you find races that give awards based on chip time? I thought it was standard practice to only count gun time as official and chip time is just for information purposes? |
| Starting to Care a Little |
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I agree with you about that and it is a legit topic of discussion. Some of the details are quite interesting. My point wasn't that people should keep their mouths shut. My point was that I don't like anonymous statements like "Kip is a cheat," especially when they were getting deleted within minutes of being posted. Until a few of the recent posts, there were no details and you can't assume all readers of this site have seen all the threads that came before. Some of us actually are new to the site. Now, I'll take the advice of the angry veterans and stop posting. |
| Clarkston Kent |
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Starting several minutes after the gun is part of Dr. Litton's MO, that's been established. Nobody has made a link between that perfectly okay start strategy and what he does after he crosses the start line. His chip times are 3-5 minutes slower than gun time. Ponder on that all you want but unless you can make a connection between that & his missing pics, improbable splits, etc, you offer nothing to the discussion. And, he won't be coming back to the Vermont City Marathon in '11. His goal is to run sub-3:00 in all 50 states. VT is no longer on his list. |
| edumacator |
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If we identify which states he has not been to yet, we should be able to narrow down his next target. Then someone could follow him at a race and ensure that he runs the whole course, as was done at the Maine half marathon, where he was suddenly unable to run his usual marathon pace for half the distance. |
| random a hole |
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You care enough to post 7 times on it. |
| Speculation |
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So anyone have thoughts on how he did it? Here's my theory for the longer races: He disguises himself as a volunteer on a bike. Starts the course after the crowd has cleared out. Carefully paces himself to hit all the timing mats at approximately the right times. Then stashes the bike and runs the last few miles of the course. I came up with this after watching the start video of the Vermont Marathon. Several bikers on the course at approximately the time you would expect to see Kip. Anyone have experience being a bike volunteer for a Marathon? Would anyone question you if you showed up wearing a bright jacket and a fanny pack and started biking the marathon route? |
| now we're back on topic |
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This bike idea is some good, fresh thinking. It would get you over all the mats (Even ones you didn't know would be positioned) Seems like he would be showing up in at least a few race pictures of real participants if this was the case though. Also I think you would have trouble with this at a biggy, like Boston. Most of the small ones would be entirely possible though. |
| Red eye from photo looking |
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I've checked the bike angle, can't find any photo's. He would have to purchase a bike each time he traveled, I don't think he check one on as baggage. If you watch the Vermont start there are a lot people crossing the course as the last few runners go by. I've been checking to see if I see him wearing his cap but with the black shirt he ends up holding in the fininsh photo's. |
| boston 2010 photos |
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Has anyone checked these photos from Boston 2010 1mi/30K/20mi for any clues? http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/ |
| no proof no proof no proof |
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seriously people you need to get a life and leave other people alone. how about the starving children in africa if you are bored? |
| kirkaz |
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yes. he was followed and he ran a legit 1:28 for maine half marathon. seems slow considering he "ran" 2:49 chip time at vermont city, 2:49 chip time at missoula, and low 2:50s chip time at a bunch of other places. |
| VF Runner |
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The bike thought makes me wonder a bit. I ran the AC marathon this year. Early on (mi. 4-7ish)there was a guy on a bike who seemed to be pacing one of the guys I was running around. As we neared the return to the boardwalk, the bike went on ahead not to be seen again. After a brief exchange with the other runner, I found out he claimed he didn't know the biker, had seen him near the start, and was just as puzzled as I was. "Kip Litton" doesn't show up in the results at all and I haven't been able to find out if he was entered and DNF'd or anything else. Does anyone know if NJ is a state that Kip has checked off? The guy on the bike was wearing "running compatible" clothing (including running shoes), had a hat on and was wearing sunglasses. I couldn't have picked the biker out of a lineup, but having seen pictures of Kip now, I would say that he could have been a possible match. |
| Dirty South |
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Someone posted a believeable reason for the late starts. One could start out with the first wave, but leave the dtag behind with a helper. After everyone starts, the helper crosses the line last (not a runner so they wouldn't be noticed, they wouldn't even have to be all the way on the course). The helper meets the runner before the next mat and hand the runner something with the dtag in it (clothes, new shoes, whatever). Other than that, faking injuries can easily get a runner off the course and back on without drawing a lot of attention. On the back and out type of courses, one could fake an unjust and turn around and walk back toasted the start. Other runners think they injured or whatever, then after passing the injured runner ignore them. Further, folks behind the injured runner just see a guy who was out front and hobbling, valiantly start running again. Maybe even race to the line (not knowing this person has 4 or 5 minutes on them due to the late start) |
| Dirty South |
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Sorry, friggen spell checker made some of that gibberish: toasted = towards Unjust = injury |
| obsession |
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You spend a lot of time thinking about this don't you? |
| Lone gunman |
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This is like JFK. Lone gunman? Helper? The helper technique sounds very viable giving the runner a headstart of several minutes and the technique could be repeated as the race goes on. |
| Chuck Matthews |
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I find this entire discussion absolutely fascinating. It is like an old fashioned mystery that is just begging to be solved. It looks like we are assembling a team with a clue here and a clue there from across the USA. It is like a jigsaw puzzle that is starting to come together. |
| Dirty South |
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Not really, just restating what some else said in one of the deleted threads. I do find it interesting however (the how). |
| kirkaz |
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YES! |
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