p61

Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 |
anaerobically carbonated vases
RE: I'll pass this along from RWOL MRT thread 1/19/2011 1:21PM - in reply to newspaper reporterReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Not really, unless it had been for, put gently, "tax purposes." :) Thanks for checking!
Mid-market newspaper employee
RE: Earlier races 1/19/2011 1:59PM - in reply to Keith StoneReply | Return to Index | Report Post
[/quote]The reporter has very little say in what stories go in the paper. That decision is up to the editorial board. The reporter can pitch a story, but the whole "cheating at road races" angle probably doesn't rise to high in your normal editorial board's interest level particularly if they don't think the general public will understand it. The original story was your typical feel-good special interest story. The rebuttal means trying to explain splits and clothing changes to people that quite frankly don't give a rip. It could come down to something as simple as the editor not wanting to pay the guy to research and write the story. If it could be proved he actually defrauded a charity or did something that rises to a wider interest I'm sure it would come back on the radar, but the race cheating angle isn't really a hot topic in your average mid-market newspaper.[/quote]

I have another seven pages of this thread to read so I don't know if this has been addressed, but the "average mid-market newspaper" that I work at would jump all over this story if it was local to our market. It would be big news, especially if there was a possibility of defrauding a charity. In fact, the race cheating aspect happened in my city several years ago. A prominent local professional businessman was caught cheating in several running races. He "won" his age group many times, and I think cheated his was to a Boston qualification. His cheating was reported in my paper. Interestingly, in the letters to the editor that followed, most writers criticized our paper for picking on the private life of a person who had done "so much for our community" - they really didn't care that he had cheated at races.

Oh, and at our paper, reporters certainly have a lot of say what stories are published. They all have their own beats, but they can always pitch a story of personal interest to their editor, and it will almost always be accepted for publication.
newspaper reporter
RE: Earlier races 1/19/2011 2:17PM - in reply to Mid-market newspaper employeeReply | Return to Index | Report Post
It's true. If Kip lived in the circulation area of my newspaper, I'd be jumping all over this to get it in print. Kinda hard to sell it to my editor to write about a cheating dentist who lived several time zones's away, alas.
rub one out
RE: Earlier races 1/19/2011 2:49PM - in reply to Mid-market newspaper employeeReply | Return to Index | Report Post
And there's the rub...


Mid-market newspaper employee wrote:
Interestingly, in the letters to the editor that followed, most writers criticized our paper for picking on the private life of a person who had done "so much for our community" - they really didn't care that he had cheated at races.

W
RE: I'll pass this along from RWOL MRT thread 1/19/2011 2:51PM - in reply to haha YOReply | Return to Index | Report Post
All, I am in need of some dental work so I have decided to trust my teeth to the Kipster. Hopefully the topic of running will come up and I can hear his take on training. I will report back after the visit.

____________________________________________________________
Before going, you should probably watch the movie Marathon Man.
Experior
RE: He does Duathlon too... 1/19/2011 4:10PM - in reply to I'm not surprised by thisReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Well, yes and no.

This will come around again to a relevant point. Bear with me...

'Fast' on the bike is very course-dependent. If you look at the 2007 results for the tri (larger field, more meaningful stats) 22mph would put you 35th out of 148 males. Not bad, but I wouldn't call that "pretty damn fast".

Almost all of the larger tris that I've done (750+ entrants) do have timing mats at the turnarounds on the bike and run, and some have had additional timing mats in other places. I don't dispute that cheating is possible, and even easy at smaller events, but I wouldn't say it is "exceptionally easy" across the board, especially not in larger races. And at the front of the pack, it is very hard to cheat, because people will have you marked. Your example illustrates why -- FOP racers are marking each other. On the typical out-and-back, multi-loop courses that we have in tris, this is easy to do even with athletes in a different wave.

There was a guy outed on another forum not too long ago for cutting the bike course of a tri (and possibly the swim course as well). This happened because the FOP riders were able to figure out that he was not where he should have been, had he ridden the pace posted in the results. Getting away with it at the FOP would not be easy.

That's why I suggested that if anybody knows the FOP riders in the 2008 du, they should be asked. It was a while ago now, but it is possible that they had a head-scratching moment on the day and just left it at that.
/thread
RE: Earlier races 1/19/2011 5:27PM - in reply to newspaper reporterReply | Return to Index | Report Post

newspaper reporter wrote:

It's true. If Kip lived in the circulation area of my newspaper, I'd be jumping all over this to get it in print. Kinda hard to sell it to my editor to write about a cheating dentist who lived several time zones's away, alas.


I would think a COMPETING newspaper would jump at the chance to make their RIVAL paper look bad AND bury the Kipster.
newspaper reporter
RE: Earlier races 1/19/2011 5:34PM - in reply to /threadReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Well, yes. But I don't think my newspaper in California considers a paper in Flint, Michigan, competition. And, vice versa. Plus, as far as we know, Kip's never even raced in California.
Perhaps a Detroit paper should do something...
flinttown
RE: Earlier races 1/19/2011 6:06PM - in reply to /threadReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Problem is no one but you message board nerds cares about this story.
message board nerd
RE: Earlier races 1/19/2011 6:14PM - in reply to flinttownReply | Return to Index | Report Post
That you, RichRod? ? ?
gasser
RE: I'll pass this along from RWOL MRT thread 1/19/2011 7:21PM - in reply to newspaper reporterReply | Return to Index | Report Post

newspaper reporter wrote:

In my cursory search, there is no record/filing anywhere of a charity associated with Kip. Is anyone surprised by that? Think not.


Yeah, I searched the MI Corporations Database and Guidestar.org for non-profits attached to Kip Litton, and several variations of world record and worldrecordrun.com. Nothing came up not related to dentistry. Not surprising since he's a fraud.

A google search shows a link at a Cystic Fibrosis website. It's possible any donated money went directly to them on behalf of Kip and worldrecordrun, but I remember an earlier poster saying that checks were requested to be written out to worldrecordrun.com. To open a business bank account such as wwr.com you need to provide an IRS determination letter or letter of incorporation or whatever upon setting up the account, so who knows what the situation was with all that.
Kipinator
RE: He does Duathlon too... 1/19/2011 7:43PM - in reply to ExperiorReply | Return to Index | Report Post
My opinion, based on the first run split ( 2 mi out and back) he cut the run, got out front, sprinted off on his bike out of site (everyone assumed he was ahead) and hid until he was lapped. Then he comes from back of the pack fresh as a daisy and sprints to front for the lead. The last run leg he jogs at a legit 7 min pace
Clarkston Kent
It's a Kip Thing 1/19/2011 8:40PM - in reply to KipinatorReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Just thought I'd kip, I mean chip in today. Nothing new on this end to report. The stew is on simmer.
HOF
RE: It's a Kip Thing 1/19/2011 9:37PM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post
nerp
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 1/19/2011 9:45PM - in reply to Race detectiveReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Race detective wrote:

What's been missing with regard to the Rochester Marathon is better information about whether anything is suspicious about his performance. I originally pointed out (2nd thread) that he had a 'start time' of 34 sec, with only 13 slower starting runners in a field of about 600.

'Long Sox' (page 9 of this thread) then reviewed the available pictures of Kip, and mentioned once again that there are few photos of him compared to other runners. The pictures he linked show him clutching at his leg before the finish, then walking across the line.

If there were a fairly complete sequence of photos mid-race which showed other nearby finishers and not Kip, that would provide better reason for suspicion about his performance. Well, I just finished searching through Brightroom's photos, and have found just such a sequence.

Finishing results are given here:
http://www.rochestermarathon.com/content/docs/2010%20Results%20-%20Full%20Overall.pdf

Brightroom's photo browser is here:
http://www.brightroom.com/view_event_photos.asp?EVENTID=61901&PWD=Rochester

It's not as convenient as it could have been to find the sequence, as after about 30 thumbnails, photos from another part of the race appear. Nonetheless, a sequence can be found. Enter 740 for the 'Start with photo' number and view 48 photos per page. Repeat the viewing with photo 804, photo 876, and photo 1020. Photos in this sequence were taken somewhere along the canal.

By doing this, I could identify everyone who eventually finished between the first runner (Bib 577) to the 25 overall finisher. [The latter was a team entrant (Bib 3326), which had a finishing time of 3:04:21.] That is, everyone except one. Kip Litton, whose finishing time is listed as 2:57:59.

Looking at the course map, these photos would have been taken no earlier than around mile 10. Canal section continues past mile 20, so could be significantly later.

All the other sub 3-hour finishers appear no later than 22nd place in this sequence. Kip is not seen even as far down as 39th place. (I suspect a gap in the photos beyond this, which continue with photo 1236.)

Intermediate splits with racing positions could make this a closed case. They either weren't taken, or weren't reported.

Maybe there is other evidence (or lack thereof) that will show up ... for now, I'd list this as a questionable performance.


Just to back this up, I have worked at this marathon before and can give a little more insight into the picture sequences. The only pictures of Kip Litton are under 2 miles to go. The picture of him passing the lady are at mile ~24.5, she was towards the tail end of the half marathon. These are the only pictures of him seen.

The picture sequence you posted were taken midway on the canal. They're at a spot I can't readily identify, I can only say it is somewhere between the miles 12 and 14, as that section looks very much the same throughout. This section is a straight path about 3 runners wide- no way any photographer could have missed Kip.
Race detective
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 1/19/2011 9:57PM - in reply to nerpReply | Return to Index | Report Post
Thanks for the backing up. I had also thought that it looked like miles 12-14, but didn't know enough about the other miles to know if other sections might also match.
Kevin52
RE: Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but 1 and only 1 thread 1/19/2011 10:35PM - in reply to Race detectiveReply | Return to Index | Report Post
http://www.athlinks.com/time.aspx?eventid=23590&courseid=35233&r=82496327&mode=o&gender=M&page=1

Kip probably didn't skip around in this local 5k. He comes in behind a guy that I have a friendly rivalry with. We are usually close, I generally edge him out in the longer and warmer races.
swedishbasteve
RE: I'll pass this along from RWOL MRT thread 1/19/2011 11:46PM - in reply to gasserReply | Return to Index | Report Post

gasser wrote:

[quote]newspaper reporter wrote:

In my cursory search, there is no record/filing anywhere of a charity associated with Kip. Is anyone surprised by that? Think not.


Yeah, I searched the MI Corporations Database and Guidestar.org for non-profits attached to Kip Litton, and several variations of world record and worldrecordrun.com. Nothing came up not related to dentistry. Not surprising since he's a fraud.

A google search shows a link at a Cystic Fibrosis website. It's possible any donated money went directly to them on behalf of Kip and worldrecordrun, but I remember an earlier poster saying that checks were requested to be written out to worldrecordrun.com. To open a business bank account such as wwr.com you need to provide an IRS determination letter or letter of incorporation or whatever upon setting up the account, so who knows what the situation was with all that.[/quote]

Most banks nationaly ony require the registration of a fictitious name at the county clerks office and the publication of said name in a local newspaper.
swedishbasteve
RE: I'll pass this along from RWOL MRT thread 1/20/2011 12:04AM - in reply to Clarkston KentReply | Return to Index | Report Post

Clarkston Kent wrote:

[quote]GK wrote:

He's going to be next to impossible to catch in the act. He has found every loop hole.

If he is being monitored, then what is stopping him from faking an injury and dropping out?


You raise many good points and the answer to your last question is: nothing. However, that too would become part of his 'running portfolio' and referred to in any story that might be written.[/quote]

Are you suggesting that a story maybe is being written? It seems as though all of the signs point to yes. The "in the know people" on this thread have hinted as much. Isn't that all that is left to do on the story. If there are indeed more layers to this onion, then you write "Chapter 2 D.K.L. The Formative Years".
swedishbasteve
RE: I'll pass this along from RWOL MRT thread 1/20/2011 12:13AM - in reply to swedishbasteveReply | Return to Index | Report Post
nationally!
Pages: | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 |


Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3863010&page=60#ixzz1ZEMCGnt7
Buy your shoes from LetsRun and save 20% everday http://www.letsrun.com/save