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| Race detective |
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I agree with ScottH on this. If he were THAT much better of a biker, you'd expect to see other races where he was smoking others, but that doesn't show up if you look at the other duathlon result details. Scott - What about 22.5 mph? That's what he averaged at the 2007 Craig Greenfield race, where he posted the 3rd best bike time, and was the overall winner. |
| florida oldtimer |
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Kevin52 Is it possible for you to zoom in on the guy stretching in the background of this picture. http://www.runmichigan.com/photogallery/08/brooksiewayjc_window.php?138 Thanks |
| Kevin52 |
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Will do. That's pretty small, probably won't see much. |
| Kevin52 |
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http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/15453422_jerXp#1161239975_bY7E3-A-LB
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| florida oldtimer |
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Thanks Kevin52, you're right a little small to zoom in, although it probably is him at the start of Brooksie way. All black and who stretches like that after crossing the start of a race. |
| Experior |
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I'm not familiar with the riding scene in MI. I would say that if he can hold 25mph, and if he can hang with local strong riders, then, given that he has done more than one duathlon in the area, it is very unlikely that local riders don't know him. The point behind my original post was exactly that -- local riders would be in the best position to say whether he rode the course legitimately. As in running, the FOP racers are very aware of where their competitors are in the race. They would know whether he was where he should have been if he really rode that speed. If you know some of these people, it is worth asking. |
| Empty Nest Runner |
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Maybe when Kip runs races under different names, he does them as a test run, to see how easy the race is to "Kip". Then, the following year, he runs as Kip thus recording another sub 3. |
| Zapruder |
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Some of this is probably correct. My understanding is that it would be possible to use donations to pay for expenses of his fun raising (travel, race entry etc.) Your explanation doesn't really address him using other names though. Running this like an upfront fund raising venture doesn't allow him to race this way. If he was working with race directors to get visibility and comps he would need to have visible charity attire and attract attention to himself. The long and short of it is this all seems like way way too much work for what he could get out of it. How many people do you think really care if he did all 50 under 3 hours instead of just completing 50 in all states. Not too many I would guess.
Try this on for size: - create a charitable foundation, linked to a high profile and valid foundation/cause - create a goal, in this case 50 sub 3's in 50 states, as the foundation's mantra - run around the country, utilizing foundation money to fund this, executing said goal - at the same time, build a list of accomplishments that will be reflected on you personally and will probably be around as long as records exist Message boards, blogs, all those things will eventually disappear. However, race records on formal databases might persist as long as technology exists. You get to have all this fun, getting others to flip the tab, and you get noteriety that will linger long after. The dq's and all that mean nothing, as long as those efforts ere in the books somewhere, because that's what people will see.[/quote] |
| Zapruder |
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So has he out right said where any of the information presented here has been outright wrong? For example, blue coat man.
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| Master's Haha |
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Just a side note: Master's runners would never dope. Too expensive and involved, and for what, a sub-3:00 marathon that no one else cares about? Hahahahahaha |
| scotth |
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Don't know the answer. Not going to try & make one up. Cycling is different from running in that body type doesn't accurately dictate how well you can ride - thus Kip's stocky build doesn't tell me much one way or other. |
| Zapruder |
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Oh me likes this one.
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| no way he did 25mph |
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25mph is a solid time for a 40k time trial, where the racer is by himself, no drafting. breaking 1hr for a 40k is kind of a standard of being good. maybe like breaking 16 min 5k. you'd be considered a much above average, though not elite with that speed. it was only 16miles but when you look at all the other times, his is the bike split doesn't add up. and if you burn yourself out on the first run, then hammer the bike, you will be hurting on the 2nd run. but unless he's the only guy with a tailwind, then no way he did 25mph. i can do a sub 55 min 40k time trial and i'll bet tons of money that i'm a much much better cyclist than him. |
| mommy mommy |
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All results reported for Kip Litton can be labeled as a fraud. There is no reason whatsoever to believe that he has done one legitimate race. Time doesn't mean anything, even if it might be within his ability. |
| Race detective |
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Golden State Runner had posted a comparison photo, showing that it is consistent with what Kip was wearing that day. http://www2.brightroom.com/browser.aspx?eid=31537&bib=2499 Shorts in both pics are dark and not the compression shorts he often wears. A long sleeve top in the starting area photo, as per usual for his starts. While your last sentence was probably meant to be sarcastic, I think it actually adds to our understanding of his m.o. I previously thought that the photo was before the start line and he was doing last minute stretching. You're right - the starting area can be seen at the left corner of the original photo, an important detail not captured in the previous photo GSR posted: http://www.runmichigan.com/photogallery/08/brooksiewayjc_window.php?137 So here's how it works: you start in the back, look like a non-participant, and immediately go off to stretch after crossing the line. No one is going to care where you go after that. Go for a run down a side street, for example. And when coming back onto the course, reverse the process. Amble onto the side, look like you were a runner who had a bad cramp and had to stretch it out but finally could get going again, and blend in. One more thought which hasn't been discussed: for races where chip times determine finishing order, another reason for starting several minutes behind is that if trying to place in the age-group, he would just have to wait near the finish and judge finishers ages, and then knowing his start delay, he knows how much time to wait. He thus finishes a few minutes behind by gun time of the target age-group finisher, but sneaks ahead in the results by chip time. I've noticed when he places first or second in his age-group, it is often by a relatively small margin. This is how he can do it. |
| automatically curated database |
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Someone should dig to see if he actually set up a 501(c)(3) for worldrecordrun. Hey, newspaper reporter, are you still reading this thread and want to run a quick lexis search? Wouldn't we all like to deduct our running expenses, particularly if you have a travel habit (for running or any other purpose) and wanted a nice way to deduct all of your airfare by kipping a race in the place you traveled to? Actually, for that, it wouldn't even have to be a charitable organization, though if it didn't have much income, there are limits on how long he could continue to take a loss through it. That'd be interesting. |
| Clarkston Kent |
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[/quote] No. He's failed to explain himself and why we're wrong. No surprise. |
| Kipster |
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How about if he sat out a lap and no one noticed? |
| ouch1000 |
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Pages and pages ago on this thread, I posted a summary of the early discoveries of Litton's cheating. Since that time, the discoveries and outstanding detective work by the LR folks have dramatically expanded the scope of Litton's bizarre escapade of cheating and dishonesty. Since the thread is now almost impossibly long, it would probably be helpful if someone could post a history of the investigation up to this point that could piggyback on mine. That way folks new to the thread could understand in a nutshell what has happened. SoKLR - I know you have some great stuff on your site - could you put it all into one written document that could be posted here and on your site? On another note, has anyone looked more closely at the WV Marshall Marathon? I can't believe how many different instances of cheating that have been uncovered. As I said to Clarkston Kent in a recent e-mail, there has to be a limit for how weird this is getting. I mean, if the guy is seriously mentally ill and we are expending a lot of energy to corral the illness, we are wasting our time. On the other hand, if he is the serial cheater that we have made him out to be, then this continues to be a worthwhile exercise. I know that I may never get an answer for this, but what remaining motivation would he have for a) expending serious $$ to travel to a far-away marathon to b) cheat in it and c) use a different name? Utterly outrageous in theory, but it has been documented now several times over the past few days. He doesn't get the notoriety, he doesn't get to show the results to his "friends" as a fast race, he can't claim it in any fundraising goal, he gets no apparent personal payback (except possible a piddly amount of prize money). I just cannot understand. None of us probably ever will unless Litton decides to come clean and write a book in which he divulges his motivations and methods. Despite the disgusting egomania associated with that idea, I think it would be fantastic as long as it led to better race controls and an answer to all of our burning questions about WHY. Come on Kip - help us out here! |
| Kajun fingerz |
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we could be wrong about the blue coat at Boston 2010. we could be wrong about one of his possibly legit marathons, among the many fraudulent ones. but he wont come on here to defend it |
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