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| Clarkston Kent |
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This is not necessary. You guys need to separate what he does for a living and whas his avocation is. They are not the same thing, not related. |
| MC |
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GK and I ran Manchester in 2010, I believe it was the same course as 2009. We both don't remember all that much about it but the 2nd half was definitely a lot harder than the 1st half - it's hillier and has more twists and turns and headwind. It would be really tough to get a neg split. At the halfway point you loop back really close to the start/finish where everyone parks. I *think* there were chip mats at more than just the start/half/finish. But his half split was 1:28 which he supposedly can do, so maybe he ran the first half and then went to his car, drove along the 2nd half looking for chip mats (it wasn't closed to traffic), and then came back to finish when he thought was appropriate. Also there were a TON of photographers there, we had a ridiculous amount of pictures for a race of that size. It would be tough for him to slip past them all if he had actually run it. |
| KipInAHaystack |
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Wrap up the investigation for the 2009 City of Trees Marathon - add another Disqualification to Kip's list. Here is most of the race director's reply (I removed a little, for public consumption): "We caught him doing the same thing, only we didn't have the time to check on his past. We just thought he cut course since he didn't get his picture taken with the pack at mile 10 or mile 22, but we dq'd him for awards, and left his time online so we could compare at a later date. THANK YOU SO MUCH for the info. I don't know why people do that..." "...my best friend and the guy who sets up the course is very aware of all the goings on with the top 5 runners as he usually finishes 2nd or 3rd. He told me upon the race finish, 'No way that guy ran the whole race, I never passed him, or saw him.'"
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| Clarkston Kent |
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Above was an email from an alleged patient of Dr Litton's to the Michigan Runner. Subsequent inquiry concluded it was Kip himself who submitted it - touting himself. It was sent in AFTER his DQ from the Detroit Marathon. It would've been his attempt to 'prove himself' in lieu of the DQ. Brian Smith did not write the note. |
| Er... |
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A little more info here would help: from whom was the "subsequent inquiry" and how was it proved that the submission was from KL?
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| florida oldtimer |
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So is that Kip posting this? aka Fred What a loser.
Above was an email from an alleged patient of Dr Litton's to the Michigan Runner. Subsequent inquiry concluded it was Kip himself who submitted it - touting himself. It was sent in AFTER his DQ from the Detroit Marathon. It would've been his attempt to 'prove himself' in lieu of the DQ. Brian Smith did not write the note.[/quote] |
| MOMONEY |
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shouldnt it be SKIP litton, as in he skips most of the course... |
| cpr |
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Or even Skip Alotton? |
| Ekiden man |
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How do you know it was he? |
| case sensitive |
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I don't get it. There's nothing wrong with being able to run a sub 1:30 half marathon, it's a decent time for a masters runner. From the details in this thread it looks like Mr. Litton can do that. Do you think maybe there's just some sort of thrill involved in being able to pull these things off? I've seen people blatantly cheat at races. I ran the Around the Bay one year and saw a young guy rollerblading the course, with his bib and chip and shoes draped over his shoulder, sarcastically telling people 'great job' as he wheeled past them. There's no rollerblade category at the ATB, and he nets either a silver (sub 2:15) or gold (sub 2:00) medal and rubs it in others faces. Why would anyone do it? I just don't get it. |
| Clarkston Kent |
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How do you know it was he?[/quote] I'll bundle 3 queries about my post w/one response. I don't know who 'Fred' is, but it's not Kip. I don't owe anybody here an explanation as to how it was determined it was Kip that wrote the note to Michigan Runner. I can tell you there was correspondence with him following his Detroit DQ and publication of the bogus note to MR. He failed to explain who Brian Smith was. Interestingly, there's a Brian Smith who runs and lives within a mile of Kip. There's more, but that's enough. If I had a patient named Brian Smith, I'd have been quick to say that. Kip never did. The question was posed to him pointedly, 'Who's Brian Smith?' He didn't say he was a patient of his. He didn't put up much of a fight when told it was felt he wrote the note. If I felt I were innocent, I'd have quickly produced evidence to support my case. He failed to do so. |
| Vertigo |
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Out of the MILLIONS of people doing these races what are the odds that NO ONE would have a psychological compulsion to cheat? Why would Tiger forsake his very attractive wife for a much less attractive ho? The thrill of doing something "forbidden" gives a serious buzz to some. Anyhting that provides adrenaline can become addictive. |
| Study of K.Litton Running |
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working on an updated timeline: so far.... Date Event Gun Time Chip Time Difference Key Suspicions 05/23/09 Bayshore (Michigan) Marathon 02:55:40 02:52:58 00:02:42 1:30:13 1st Half; 1:22:45 2nd Half 08/22/09 Crim (Michigan) 10 mile ? 00:56:55 ? unusually fast time; “removed” from official results, yet result is still listed on Athlinks.com 09/06/09 New Mexico Marathon 02:58:38 02:57:53 00:00:45 5000ft Altitude; 2nd overall; delayed start; 4th place finisher swears he didn't see him 10/04/09 City of Trees (Idaho) Marathon ? 02:55:45 ? Race Director DQ for awards – missing from photographs at key locations along race course 10/18/09 Detroit Free Press Marathon Relay ? ? ? RACE DIRECTOR DQ subsequent to investigation of relay team 11/01/09 Manchester City Marathon (NH) ? 02:54:06 ? Negative split – 1:28:13, 1:25:53; race is hillier and more difficult in 2nd half 01/17/10 PF Chang Arizona Marathon 02:55:28 02:51:21 00:04:07 video; net difference 02/27/10 Gasparilla 15K 00:57:11 00:54:05 00:03:06 went through half in 29:11(7.5K) 02/27/10 Gasparilla 5K 00:20:40 00:17:33 00:03:07 walking @17:33 5K 02/27/10 Gasparilla Marathon 02:57:56 02:53:52 00:04:04 1:31:01 1st half 03/20/10 Shamrock (Virginia) 8K 00:35:15 00:29:10 00:06:05 long sleeve & long pants, finished with slower people because he started so far back 03/21/10 Shamrock (Virginia) Marathon 02:56:53 02:53:15 00:03:38 outfit change (pants, jacket) 04/11/10 Go! St. Louis Marathon 02:59:31 02:54:25 00:05:06 missing splits for 6miles & 20miles, and all other in finishers in the top 20 (Kip was 19th) have these splits 04/18/10 BAA Boston 5K Road Race 00:21:21 00:17:17 00:04:04 large difference from gun v. net (4:04)...17:17 net 5K (5:34 pace/mile) in a baggy blue windbreaker and long pants 04/19/10 BAA BOSTON MARATHON ? 02:52:12 ? outfit change (pants, ball cap) 05/02/10 Providence COX Marathon 02:56:13 02:52:39 00:03:34 outfit change (shoes, shorts) 05/16/10 Delaware Marathon DISQUALIFIED – 02:57:16 N/A N/A RACE DIRECTOR DQ 05/30/10 KeyBank Vermont City Marathon 02:53:36 02:49:02 00:04:34 net difference; 6:11/mi for final 10K 07/03/10 West Wyoming Marathon Race doesnt exist – FABRICATED a 02:56:12 N/A N/A FABRICATION – Kip came in 1st place but Race does NOT EXIST! (confirmed by marathonguide.com) 07/11/10 Missoula Montana Marathon DISQUALIFIED – 02:49 RACE DIRECTOR DQ 08/28/10 Crim (Michigan) 10 mile DNS – Injury N/A N/A N/A 09/12/10 Rochester NY Marathon 02:57:59 02:57:25 00:00:34 1st Master - $300 prize money 10/03/10 Maine Half Marathon ? 01:28:14 ? sub-par relative to recent performances. We've heard he was followed by person on bike to ensure he ran full distance. 11/20/10 Sandy Springs (Atlanta, GA) Half Marathon Race doesnt exist – FABRICATED – 1:20:44 N/A N/A FABRICATION – Race does NOT EXIST! 12/01/10 Charlotte Thunderbird Marathon 03:00:24 02:55:20 00:05:04 6:11pace from 13.1 to 20miles, bib covered & walking at finish 12/04/10 Pine Hills 5K Race doesnt exist – FABRICATED FABRICATION – Race does NOT EXIST! |
| florida oldtimer |
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I'll have to admit I'm interested in your posts Clarkston Kent and have wondered where you've been the past few days but you strike me as a little bit of a control freak with your responses on this thread. If you have information, then spill it but don't keep posting with comments like "that's enough" or "I don't owe anybody an explanation". Why even post that? This is with all do respect. Just come clean and let us know your situation as best you can as I assume you live in Clarkston. |
| Race detective |
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What's been missing with regard to the Rochester Marathon is better information about whether anything is suspicious about his performance. I originally pointed out (2nd thread) that he had a 'start time' of 34 sec, with only 13 slower starting runners in a field of about 600. 'Long Sox' (page 9 of this thread) then reviewed the available pictures of Kip, and mentioned once again that there are few photos of him compared to other runners. The pictures he linked show him clutching at his leg before the finish, then walking across the line. If there were a fairly complete sequence of photos mid-race which showed other nearby finishers and not Kip, that would provide better reason for suspicion about his performance. Well, I just finished searching through Brightroom's photos, and have found just such a sequence. Finishing results are given here: http://www.rochestermarathon.com/content/docs/2010%20Results%20-%20Full%20Overall.pdf Brightroom's photo browser is here: http://www.brightroom.com/view_event_photos.asp?EVENTID=61901&PWD=Rochester It's not as convenient as it could have been to find the sequence, as after about 30 thumbnails, photos from another part of the race appear. Nonetheless, a sequence can be found. Enter 740 for the 'Start with photo' number and view 48 photos per page. Repeat the viewing with photo 804, photo 876, and photo 1020. Photos in this sequence were taken somewhere along the canal. By doing this, I could identify everyone who eventually finished between the first runner (Bib 577) to the 25 overall finisher. [The latter was a team entrant (Bib 3326), which had a finishing time of 3:04:21.] That is, everyone except one. Kip Litton, whose finishing time is listed as 2:57:59. Looking at the course map, these photos would have been taken no earlier than around mile 10. Canal section continues past mile 20, so could be significantly later. All the other sub 3-hour finishers appear no later than 22nd place in this sequence. Kip is not seen even as far down as 39th place. (I suspect a gap in the photos beyond this, which continue with photo 1236.) Intermediate splits with racing positions could make this a closed case. They either weren't taken, or weren't reported. Maybe there is other evidence (or lack thereof) that will show up ... for now, I'd list this as a questionable performance. |
| Kyp Lyttyn |
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Nice research! Something tells me we'll be digging up bones for years. |
| kip the sip |
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Easy florida, I feel the same way about Clarkston Kent but keep digging and don't worry about him. He has good info and you do as well. |
| florida oldtimer |
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You're right, just ticks me off a little, he has good info. Back to the digging. |
| screwball cheaters |
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Wow...this is epic. Wow. Wow. Wow. Kip is psychologically unwell. I all of this I noticed 2-3 obscure posts suggesting why go after his personal practice and ruin the guy? One even implied it could drive him over the edge and we'd have blood on our hands. I think this could well be Kip himself. This tells me the guy is seriously sick in the head and needs psychiatric evaluation. However he is also very likely a criminal who has an acoomplice and there is money being donated to a 'charity' which means he and his sidekick are pocketing the money. When this blows up the IRS ought to audit Mr. Litton. In fact, they might want to crawl up his ass with a microscope. There is a reward given by the IRS for turning in tax cheats and frauds. I think it's about $2000. One of you young guns ought to go for it. |
| Clarkston Kent |
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You're right, just ticks me off a little, he has good info. Back to the digging.[/quote] Let's put it this way, I have better info than anybody. What's appeared on this thread has supplemented what I know. I didn't know he might've made up race results for events that don't exist. I looked into the West WY Marathon by contacting a Jackson Hole sports writer who said he knew of no such race. I see no reason why I should share how I know what I know. Some of it is simple detective work. Some is...well, as per above, let's put it this way - his email address is not a secret. |
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